...are coming home to roost.The Supreme Court decision Citizens United v. FEC last year ruled that corporations could spend as much as they please trying to elect people who'll do their bidding or defeat people who didn't do their bidding. That decision was based on the legal reasoning that a corporation is the same as a living, breathing, eating, excreting human being and deserves the same rights under the 14th Amendment. (The 14th Amendment, O my brethren, was enacted to protect the weak. So, see how warped the legal minds of the John Roberts Court have become.)
Anyhoo ... if you've followed the nastiness in Stanly County, NC, over the polluting of the Yadkin River by the Alcoa Corporation, which I confess I haven't, you might be interested to know that Alcoa is now unleashing its corporate "personhood" to defeat through advertising $$ the sitting county commissioners who dared to sue them for the pollution.
Carter Wrenn (of all people!), the man who unleashed Jesse Helms on the universe, is now outraged about corporate power and gives the only summary we've so far seen of the "coming storm" of corporate muscle crushing ordinary American citizens and how that's currently playing out in Stanly County. The most conservative Republican we can personally think of can clearly see the poison the Roberts Supreme Court has spilled on the landscape.
Yet there are Republican voices in the state, and even in Stanly County, who still scream that the sacred Free Enterprise System demands that a company like Alcoa cannot, must not, be called to account.
No doubt the Ghost of Jesse Helms visited Carter and told him it was hot as Hell where he was and the Gas Bill to fuel the damn thing was from the Enron Corporation.........
ReplyDelete"The 14th Amendment, O my brethren, was enacted to protect the weak. So, see how warped the legal minds of the John Roberts Court have become." - J.W.
ReplyDeleteProtect the weak? I don't think so. Protecting the weak is what people like Mao claim to be doing as they kill 60 million people. Protecting the weak is what Chavez and Castro use as an excuse to stifle dissent and oppress the political opposition.
No, our political system is designed to protect the innocent, not the weak. Sorry, J.W., but nice try! :)
I think the 14th amendment was, as JW says, enacted to protect the weak in the sense that a single person who is for some reason being denied civil rights bythe society in which they live is in a position of weakness unless afforded such protection. Remember, there is automatically strength in numbers, so there is weakness in the lack thereof.
ReplyDeleteI disagree. The founders came from a culture where the nobility habitually ran roughshod (literally) over the peasantry. They knew how dangerous it is to have a parasitic oligarchy calling all the shots and oppressing the lower classes. In their day, the oligarchy was the House of Lords, an hereditary group. "Hereditary bodies... always on the watch for their own aggrandizement, profit of every opportunity of advancing the privileges of their order, and encroaching on the rights of the people." --Thomas Jefferson to A. Coray, 1823. ME 15:483
ReplyDeleteNow the oligarchy is the Builderburg group, and other corporate entities. These, in actuality are also hereditary. The 14th amendment is clearly designed to protect the weak individuals against the power abuses that inevitably result when there is a ruling class where power is concentrated.
Sorry Mike D, but you your analysis of our constitution is lacking.
ReplyDelete.
I just watched Michael Moore's "Capitalism- A Love Story." It perfectly exemplifies the nobility, in this case corporate America running roughshod over the weak. One example shown- Bank of America forcloses on a business, yet the WORKERS in the factory weren't being paid. It took a six-day sit-in and public opinion to move BOA to do the right thing.Bush eliminated banking oversight and bingo, we have banks failing, tax dollars spent to shore up our falling economy, and the banks STILL pay out multi-million dollar bonuses.
Enron, Wal-Mart, Haliburton - they are now the nobility from which we need protection.
"Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more!" -W.S.
What's this "we" crap. I never had ENRON stock, Haliburton is great, and Wal-Mart is great. If you don't mind, just protect your scared self.
ReplyDeleteHalliburton stinks. KBR - the branch that contracts services to soldiers in Iraq is corrupt and incompetent. They charge vast sums to provide crap to our soldiers. War profiteers. Wal-Mart corp does some good things and a lot of bad things. We cannot afford to allow them or any other corporation to control who gets elected to government (certainly not more than they do now).
ReplyDeleteBridle, you should be happy now as Halliburton has been fired and jailed, GITMO is closed, all the troops are out of Iraq, you have single payer health care, and the no ask don't tell can only be asked by a General now, there is little partisanship, and everyone is working that wants to work.
ReplyDeleteIt took long time ( over 8 years) to build up to this level of clusterfart. It will likely take decades if not generations, to bring us back to a place where we can begin to grow again.
ReplyDeleteHowscome Obama didn't know this and you did? Obama is in good standing with you. He can't fail in your eyes. He is praised if he can and excused if he can't. Nancy should pass a law ordering all new presidents a clear slate when they are sworn in, instead of what every president in history has had to face.
ReplyDeleteBikerBard,
ReplyDeleteMichael Moore is in this life for Michael Moore and no one else. Don't be deceived by his platitudes. Michael Moore is wealthy and powerful, of his own creation, enjoying the rich benefits of the system he claims to abhor.
Michael Moore is not proletariat, he is nobility. The product he sells, the product you buy, is not real tolerance. It's a manufactured product.
Jailer: Obviously you also don't read newspapers, magazines or books, so allow me to enlighten you. Enron lied to investors about their bottom line. Management gave out major bonuses as the company was going under.Ruined a lot of people's retirement savings. Just because your selfish self didn't invest, that makes it all right??
ReplyDeleteWalmart ships manufacturing overseas, hurting the American worker. They have been known to take advantage of employees, and had to be sued for workers to collect overtime. Haliburton is cleaning up with no-bid contracts and little oversite in the Middle East. Just sucking uo your tax dollars. Shoddy work. I believe ofer a dozen soldiers have died by electrocution due for faulty wiring.
But the larger question remains. Just because none of this affects you personally, that makes it all right? You have no interests in moving our society forward? You have no responsibilities to our country? You have no desire to help those more weak? Is this selfishish just online bravado, or do you really care so little about your fellow man?
Biker Bard, is this why Obama has fired and Holder has jailed Halliburton? Enron was dissolved within months of discovery during the Bush and Ashcroft administration. Since never in business history has an employee or a union ever embezzled, stolen, murdered, or quit without notice, should we just give business to the the unions? Opps, Obama did that one already.
ReplyDeleteDid you ever notice in your many newspapers and magazines "Halliburton" spells their name differently than you?
Enron was taken care of by law. You are right, I have no sense of responsibility for others bad investment or poor choice of employers. Sympathy yes, as I do for you and the others who believed Obama's BS during the election.
What makes you think Obama is not aware of the state of the union? And why the stupid non sequitur about Nancy? There appears to be a certain class of people who lose all ability to think rationally and reasonably when women and/or black people are in positions of power. It looks like you are in that class. It just eats away at you, doesn't it?
ReplyDeleteMichael Moore is undisciplined in his work, but brilliant. He has more guts than any other major film artist, except maybe John Stewart and Colbert. He had the cojones to ask hard questions about the war when every other media personality was slavishly abetting the lies and propaganda disseminated by the administration and their lackeys. He had the guts to take on the Saudi connections, which still haven't been addressed by the 'mainstream'. I'm glad he's rich. I hope he uses his money to keep asking the uncomfortable and unpopular questions.
ReplyDeleteBiker Bard is right. You have no sympathy or empathy for anyone. Just arrogant complacency. As long as you are OK, nobody else matters. But twice in other posts you have referred to something called "Obama recession". Can you explain your reasoning behind that?
ReplyDeleteBridle, my comment said I have sympathy for the people screwed by Enron, just as you have. I said I did not have a responsibility for their actions, meaning the stockholders or employees or the company. Guess what, you don't either. You may lie and say you sent the Enron employees some of your money, but you didn't. You just want to appear to feel more sympathetic. You may want the government to do something about it, but you ain't done nuttin'.
ReplyDeleteThe Obama recession is Obama's recession, because he has done absolutely nothing to call the Obama recovery. When he was campaigning, he never said; "Sorry folks there ain't squat I can do about the economy." He wanted to take it over and be responsible for it by winning the election. He owns it.
Bridle- People were not screwed by a corporation in the Enron case. They were screwed by an employee in one Andrew Fastow CFO. He and his wife both serve prison time. He was aided by Michael Kopper, also serving prison time. A corporation is a document.
ReplyDeleteIf corporation is a document, why is there this thing called corporate personhood?
ReplyDeleteRV, the Enron corporate charter is not sitting in the keeper, the corporate personhood didn't seem to apply here did it? If it had, a piece of paper would be getting two meals a day, one hour of exercise, TV off at midnight, free healthcare and a bunk buddy.
ReplyDeleteHere's a good one: The US government has fined Toyota a maximum $16,000,000. GM, owned by the federal government can now fine its competition. Obama sure has made things fair. "Oh what a tangled web we weave..."
ReplyDeleteBridle, I would say michael Moore is using his money to corner the corn-syrup market.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, how dare you speak for Bridle or anyone other than yourself. you pompous oaf! Second, piss and moan all you like about Obama. He won. He is our president.The last guy said any criticism against him was anti-American. Is that rule still valid?
ReplyDeleteObama is attempting to clean up the soiled mess which the previous White House inhabitants left (oh, those damned renters!) This doesn't mean he CAUSED the mess. We all know who caused the mess now, don't we? Come on, say it to yourself B**H.
Finally, you seem to lack the basic understanding about a recovery. We are RE-COV-ER-ING (see Webster's) from a tanked economy, job losses, and a near-depression. RE-COV-ER-ING.
Look it up and learn, Grasshopper
You b
The Supreme Court thinks a corporation is a person with all the rights of a citizen.
ReplyDeleteSo Jailer, the recession started a full year before Obama took office, and that makes him responsible for it? That's crazy talk. As for him doing something about it, here is a link to a list of things he did in the first 100 days alone. http://money.cnn.com/news/storysupplement/economy/obama_100_days/index.html
ReplyDeleteAll the evidence indicates that Obama's swift decisive action has turned the threatened great depression into a recovering economy. http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/05/a-new-signal-of-the-recessions-end/ The jobs indicators are up, the stock market is up from a year ago, and we are rebuilding our economy and our infrastructure. What would it take for you to give Obama credit for turning the economy around? A host of angels with trumpets announcing his accomplishments? Seriously, what would it take?
Was that a flit?
ReplyDeleteAnything you think you see as recovery right now is false. President Obama's fiscal 2011 budget will generate nearly $10 trillion in cumulative budget deficits over the next 10 years, $1.2 trillion more than the administration projected, and raise the federal debt to 90 percent of the nation's economic output by 2020, Congressional Budget Office.
ReplyDeleteWe are screwed. What you are saying is "My economic well being was saved by my credit cards", says Bridle and Biker Bard in harmony.
OK you win, those Enron employees didn't go to jail, and were not fined. The Supreme Court thinks different, you are right. The government has a special jail for corporate charters.
ReplyDeleteThe really evil corporates are shredded. The prison corporate gang tattoos are inc.
Bridle:
ReplyDeleteJailer is not going to be confused with the facts or by logic. He.she just needs to hear himself rant.
Jailer,
ReplyDeleteYou said "Anything you think you see as recovery right now is false."
You could not be more correct. All that has occurred is a temporary extension, a half-assed and bleeding continuation of the economic bubble that already burst.
Everything now is running on unfunded liabilities and borrowing at artificial interest rates that are about to go from zero percent to Jimmy Carter percent.
Expect to see a highly regressive value-added tax any day now. The vote and the signing will happen on a Friday, without fanfare, and only FoxNews and talk radio will cover it, but it will strike a massive blow to lower middle-class families who aspire to be upper middle-class.
But I guess that's the plan, right?
Mike D., I'll grant you this recovery is weak, fragile, and slow. Any significant disruption, such as oil cartels raising prices or slowing production would jeopardize it. I think some of the Republicans are deliberately trying to disrupt the measures Obama and the Democrats are trying to employ,for political reasons. The good thing about Obama is that he listens to the smartest and best experts on a subject and actually takes their advice. He is not an ideologue. The evidence so far is that the advice is sound and working. At what stage will you concede that the strategy of the stimulus is valid? What criteria will satisfy you?
ReplyDeleteExcuse me, but economists predicted a slow recovery, with job growth the last to recover. It took Bush/Cheney/Rove 8 years to destroy our economy. They then left like thieves in the night. Obama has had a lirtle over ONE year in office to repair the damage. For God's sake, cut the man some slack, Mike!
ReplyDeleteBridle,
ReplyDeleteTwo words will satisfy me:
"Budget surplus".
BikerBard,
ReplyDeleteI don't understand. We're talking fiscal policy and you are stuck on Bush/Cheney/Rove as villains and Obama as someone who is going to make everything better.
But Bush's chairman of the Federal Reserve, the guy who holds the purse strings of the country, prints the money, sets the interest rate, he is still there doing his thing.
If you are looking for who created the bubble, looking to Bush is like saying that Mickey Mouse built the Magic Kingdom.
My parents always said "It's not how much you make, it's how much you don't spend."
We're talking recovery. That means we have to conside how we got here, and then take action. The actions taken take time. That's what I want yoiu to consider.
ReplyDeleteThe only budget surplus in the past 50 years or so occurred during the Clinton administration. budget chart
ReplyDeleteI agree that would be ideal. It will not occur without a return to a true progressive tax and an end to these wars.
You need to come up with some other criteria or you are simply setting the bar beyond what's reasonable or possible.
And what makes you think there will be a federal "value added tax"?
We will not be fiscally healthy until we stop turning our wealth into bombs and blood.
Bridle,
ReplyDeleteYou may be too new to this forum to know, but I am a big fan of Bill Clinton. I did not vote for him the first time, but I certainly did the second time.
I found Clinton particularly awesome when he had to work with a Republican Congress (I think this was when the surplus you mentioned occurred). The Republican attack on his sex life did great damage to the potential for future bipartisan cooperation.
BikerBard,
ReplyDeleteIt seems unlikely that you will be able to discuss the particulars of something direct and conceptual like "fiscal policy".
You are stuck so deeply in the rut of partisan politics that you know one thing at this point... "Republican bad... Democrat good". Your conversation has become so simple that basic concepts like surplus and deficit are not up for discussion. "Republican bad... Democrat good".
I know you to be more intelligent than that, and capable of much deeper discussion. Could the free-thinking version of BikerBard please come back? He's in there somewhere. I'm just sure of it!
"Loyalty to petrified opinion never broke a chain or freed a human soul." - Mark Twain
Mike D., Your parents were right to some extent about how much you don't spend. BUT - there are exceptions. Sometimes you have to spend by making investments in order to gain anything. Sometimes you have to go in debt to get an education or buy a house in order to secure your future. Investing is spending wisely. The stimulus bill included much wise investment. What the Republicans have done(yes, they really are the bad guys, this past decade) was to spend foolishly. They tried to fight war on two fronts and to cut taxes at the same time. Insanity.
ReplyDeleteThey also removed the safeguards (Gramm-Leach-Bliley act) from our banking systems and set the stage for the meltdown of 08.
Mike D.:
ReplyDeleteThe Rethugs have shown NO INTEREST in any bipartisian agreements. They have taken the idea of compromise right out of me. I am so disgusted with the whole lot of them. There was never any intention of bipartisianship on the health care legislation. Or the budget. Or ANY proposal which had Obama's name on it. No one gave a damn about expanding government, or out of control spending during the Bush/Cheney/Rove administration.How come the Rethugs have been fiscal "Born Agains?"
Read the "other site." Read what the morally corrupt "Ditto-Heads" have to say. Then we'll talk. " In the same spirit, I say "F**k them all!" I will come to the table when they show an interest in negotiating. Until then...
"Republican Bad- Democrat (or Libertarian) Good!"
No quarter asked, no quarter given.
BikerBard,
ReplyDeleteYou should not let the actions of others determine who you will be. You are the master of your own destiny.
"The highest manifestation of life consists in this: that a being governs its own actions. A thing which is always subject to the direction of another is somewhat of a dead thing." - Thomas Aquinas
Mike D -The Republicans have stated time and time again, their primary goal is to gain and hold a permanent Republican majority.Their primary goal is not to govern fairly or effectively.
ReplyDeleteWe need to change our paradigms to reflect reality as it is now. Before Newt Gingrich started this whole new form of nastiness, it was possible for Democrats and Republicans to work together. Now, any Republicans who attempt to deviate from the hard line is kicked out of the party. As was Arlin Specter.
Biker Bard is right. It is absurd to pretend the Republicans as a party have any good will at all. The evidence is against it.
Republicans BAD -
ReplyDeleteDemocrats (and Bridle) GOOD!